Tuesday, March 16, 2010

Ray Hagins Debunked

See also my post: Ray Hagins is wrong: The Serapis Letter

A short video refuting Pastor Ray Hagins:


Documentary refuting Ray Hagins by Keith Thompson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKlWWEViURo

Prize money:
Zeitgeistchallenge.com
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Challenge.html

Articles:
1) http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html
2) http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=124&Itemid=107

Ashra Kwesi Refuted article/documentary:
Benstanhope.blogspot.com

Historicity of Jesus:
http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/entry/2008-06-21T11_32_44-07_00

***Disclaimer***

Michael Licona recently made an announcement about one of my quotations in this video:

"Humble Pie I want to make a correction to what Gary Habermas and I wrote in "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus" (p. 128). We say,  "Tiberius Caesar was the Roman emperor at the time of Jesus’ ministry and execution. Tiberius is mentioned by ten sources within 150 years of his death: Tacitus, Suetonius, Velleius Paterculus, Plutarch, Pliny the Elder, Strabo, Seneca, Valerius Maximus, Josephus, and Luke. Compare that to Jesus’ forty-two total sources in the same length of time. That’s more than four times the number of total sources who mention the Roman emperor during roughly the same period. If we only considered the number of secular non-Christian sources who mention Jesus and Tiberius within 150 years of their lives, we arrive at a tie of nine each." It has recently been brought to my attention that a graduate student has written an article revealing several other sources for Tiberius."

Footnotes:
1) See Gary Habermas book The Verdict of History. Its central objective is the delineation and extrapolation of these sources. Gary Habermas and Michael Licona's book The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus is the most extensive publication on the historicity of the resurrection to date, on page p. 233 they document 42 separate sources (Christian and non) within 150 years of Jesus' death.
(1-A) Krishna: a sourcebook By Edwin Francis Bryant p. 148 Quoting Sarala's Mahabharata "'[Jara] tageted them (Krishna's feet) with his bow and discharged an arrow. Lo it peirced the left foot of sleeping Shri Krishna, who started up, saw blood oozing out from his foot and felt a sharp pain. 'Who' he wondered 'could inflict such pain on me?' "Jara came close and recognised Shri Krishna..."
p. 150 "Jara removed the arrow from Shri Krishna's foot. Shri Krishna collapsed the gandiva with his right hand and looked at Arjuna. His spirit left his body".
2) Gary R. Habermas and Michael Licona, The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (Grand Rapids MI : Kregel Publications, 2004) 128.
"...Let's look at an even better example, a contemporary of Jesus. Tiberius Caesar was the Roman emperor at the time of Jesus' ministry and execution. Tiberius is mentioned by ten sources within 150 years of his death: Tacitus, Suetonius, Velleius Paterculus, Plutarch, Pliny the Elder, Strabo, Seneca, Valerius Maximus, Josephus, and Luke. Compare that to Jesus' forty-two total sources in the same length of time. That's more than four times the number of total sources who mention the Roman emperor during roughly the same period. If we only considered the number of secular non-Christian sources who mention Jesus and Tiberius within 150 years of their lives, we arrive at a tie of nine each."

"What we have concerning Jesus actually is impressive. We can start with approximately nine traditional authors of the New Testament. If we consider the critical thesis that other authors wrote the pastoral letters and such letters as Ephesians and 2 Thessalonians, we'd have an even larger number. Another twenty early Christian authors and four heretical writings mention Jesus within 150 years of his death on the cross. Moreover, nine secular, non-Christian sources mention Jesus within the 150 years: Josephus, the Jewish historian; Tacitus, the Roman historian; Pliny the Younger, a politician of Rome; Phlegon, a freed slave who wrote histories; Lucian, the Greek satirist; Celsus, a Roman philosopher; and probably the historians Suetonius and Thallus, as well as the prisoner Mara Bar-Serapion. In all, at least forty-two authors, nine of them secular, mention Jesus within 150 years of his death."
3) Ibid footnote(2).
4) Lee Strobel, The Case For The Real Jesus, 177
5) The Christian Combat Manual: Helps for Defending your Faith: A Handbook for Practical Apologetics, 2007, p. 206

6 comments:

  1. Very insightful! I'm glad to see that there are Christians who are engaging Hagins in an academic manner instead of dismissing him outright. I too have had my run-ins with him, and he refuses to respond to me. I was present at a lecture that he gave last year on the so called Egyptian origins of Christianity, and he offered to pay the expenses for the next 20 years to anyone who could provide irrefutable evidence that what he was saying was false, so I stood up. He recognized me and said that he would engage me at the end. However, I had to leave about midway through the lecture, because I had promised to take my wife to dinner for her birthday (the lectured started nearly 2 hours late). But before I left, I was recognized and advised him that I wasn't running from him, but I had another engagement that I had to attend, but I told him I would send him a letter in rebuttal. Here is the link to the letter I sent to him, which to this day, even after a phone call from the organizer of the event I attended called and asked for his response, he refuses to respond:
    http://urclimbingjacobsladder.blogspot.com/2009/11/open-letter-to-dr-ray-hagins.html.

    I will continue to look in on your site and see what teachings that you are advancing.

    Peace to you and everyone you love,

    David R. Tolson

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  2. You offer money because money is the root of evil you and money must go hand and hand.. right we dont need your money you cant see this after 500 years........................................................

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  3. Actually, Desmond, the *love* of money is the root of all evil - not money itself. Oh, and you know where that knowledge is found? The Bible. :D

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  4. Yawn...burps, farts, leaves..gnosis gnows..evil grows in the wombs of the Papist whores. Vicar of Satan's synogogues. Deluded and dumb as tree stumps. Evil as snakes with Jesuit murderers doing the Devil's works. Filthy demon spawn. YOU will burn soon enough as all followers of Satans Vicar shall.
    There is a reason that 64% of your degenerate priests and nuns are faggots and child rapists..too deep for you ? Your religon is dying and i hope you all die with it in the same manner you murdered millions of the true Christian gnostics. Just one more child victim of the most vile evil antichristian religion on earth. Get thee behind me Satans.! Remove your phoney Bibles from your anus's and flush the shit out of your brains.!

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  5. Frist of all, you are racist and do not know what you are talking about, since you are a gentile that would bring such a dumb statement. You do not want to know the fact that are before you and you do not want to acknowledge what is fact and what is fiction. So you stay dumb and confused, because you will not accept the fact as historically written on the wall of KEMET.
    I state that you are dumb and confuse.

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  6. Not being able to prove does not prove the opposite.

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